SC/STs need reservation , yes even the creamy layer ones
Posted by samathain on September 17, 2008
(Samatha)
Yes, in addition to SC/STs, the poor among the upper castes also deserve reservation to uplift them. That’s the spirit of welfare states. UP and Rajasthan have already made provisions for this. Kerala is considering a demand for this. Just like any other government scheme, this one is also going to be abused by the powerful. It is much easier to get fake income certificates than fake caste certificates. Atleast, there is a stigma and fear of CRE Cell over fake caste certificates. But for fake income certificates, nobody really cares. I knew a son of an industrialist in bangalore who had availed of Merit-Cum-Means scholarships based on fake income even though his family was well-off. In the villages, BPL cards are awarded to the rich by panchayat officials.
Yes, it may seem unjustified that the urban SC/ST would avail of these benefits. However, it is a reality that most of the urban poor in the slums are SC/ST. Even in the cities, SC/ST face lots of discrimination in jobs, housing and community activities. We don’t see violent atrocities in the cities. But that’s probably more because of the Urban people are more aware of the Atrocities Act and less inclined to get into problems with the police. There are very few among these educated dalits, who own lands/industries. Few of these dalit middleclass are the ones who are spending time raising dalit issues. How many among the upper castes are even concerned about dalit issues ? I would say, very few. It is these elite, well-off dalits who will provide leadership and hope for the rest. How can we expect people struggling to make a living, facing violent atrocities to have the time to raise dalit issues and launch democratic protests to protect their rights. Majority society has to realise that this leadership and HOPE is essential to discourage deprived dalits from taking extreme measures. We should learn from why many tribal youth are getting attracted to naxalism. There is a dearth of leadership within tribal socety. Few NGOs who support their cause can never really understand or emapthise with the tribals.
Planning Commission member Bhalachandra Mungekar said “reservation is important because merit is acquired through opportunities. No one is born meritorious.”
Source: Reality Check
So here is a post for you that commits the classic mistake.
http://coolshankin.blogspot.com/2006/04/reservation-its-no-morality.html
The year I got through JEE, the 9th ranker in resrved category was 1900th rank in general category. That was when I felt that reservation was “justice denied” to hundreds of deserving candidates. In my opinion, a person by virtue of coaching classes alone and no work input, can get close to 6000th to 10000th rank in JEE. If the student happens to belong to SC/ST category,…..
This is a grave error and the root cause of all problems. First you need to recognize *who* the SC/STs are and who the OBCs are. If you cannot even have this level of discussion, you will continue to make these wild allegations against SC/STs.
The SC/STs are the real downtrodden unfortunate souls who for ages have been performing menial tasks (cleaning drains, cobblers, carrying night soil, eating rats and so forth). Even today, SC/STs land holdings are miniscule. Let me put in easy language for you. There are very very few SC/STs who own say 1 ground of land in Chennai or even in the villages. They usually toil in other peoples lands. This is the situation. Yes, there is a creamy layer among SC/STs but that isnt thick enough. They have still some way to go before enough of them cross over the line, start owning lands – ownig companies / shops/ restaurants and so forth. So reservations for SC/STs – even if they deny some merit candidates are fully justified at the 22.5 % level. You just cannot expect to run away from your obligations towards the inhuman way these unfortunate souls have been treated. Harping about reservations to SC/STs is a losing cause. At 22.5% it certainly has not damaged the IITs and IIMs in any way.
Now coming to the OBCs, this is where the fun starts.
Again, it is important to understand who the OBCs are – and the position they occupy in society vis-a-vis the SC/STs. If you dont understand their position in society (either by intuition or by reading between the lines in the media) - then you cant expect to have a meaningful discussion on the current issue.
The OBCs are the most powerful people in India today. They were also powerful yesterday, 50years back, 100 years, 200 years back. In TN, the OBCs are Mudaliars, Pillais, Gounders, and Thevars, at least these are the dominant ones. These are large land holding communities, each dominant in their own geographical areas of Tamilnadu. The important fact to remember is that at no point in history were these communities subject to injustice. The brahmins (the main non BC community in Tamilnadu – others are Chettiars) were in no position to torment these communities. This was probably because the Brahmins were really dependent on handouts from these communities. The OBCs have dominated for decades, for example there are only *2* FC MLAs in the TN assembly. One is H.Raja of BJP and the other is your Amma. Most top private univesities are owned by OBCs. The richest Tamilian is also classified as OBC, so are all his relaties. It is for these people that the IIT/IIMs want to reserve seats. That is the issue being discussed now.
Do not also have any illusions about the capabilities of students from Mudaliar / Pillai / Gounder and other OBC communities. They can easily outscore and outshine brahmin students in entrance exams, in the universities, in real life. Yes, that is the fact. Last year, only 40 students from the FC category got admisson to MBBS courses even though 200 seats were available for them to contest. I would bet that the remaining 160 seats were taken by Mudaliar / Pillai / Gounder students – not because of reservation. It is because they are just better students who beat the brahmins fair and square in the exam.
Tamilnadu of course is the most pathalogical case.
Tamilnadu is further skewed because of the very very thick creamy layer among OBCs. We are talking students who belong to families where both parents and grandparents are doctors. OBC families who *own* colleges and trusts. Most boarding schools say Kodai Intl, Lovedale, Good Shepard are filled with OBC students. There is no argument that these are the best schools – they get to learn English from real Englishmen ! At least these students must be kept out of the OBC quota. But unfortunately that is not the case.
Stay tuned for more and do not make the mistake (ever!) of clubbing OBCs and SC/STs together.
Dr. Known said
Consider the fact that India is a ‘democracy’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy
and ‘not’ a ‘meritocracy’ like Taiwan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy
Hence it is imperative to implement ‘reservations’ in Temples, Judiciary and in Defense services.
A) 50% of Judges/Defense/Temple staff must be from OBC communities.
B) 35% Judges/Defense/Temple staff must be from Dalits and Tribals.
C) Remaining Judges/Defense/Temple staff must be from other castes.
This will prevent Casteism and promote Socio-Economic and Cultural Cohesion in India.
Sumeet said
what ridiculus statements. reservations are a mess for society, a curse to merit and hard work.
reservations ruins the social framework and educational standards of the staff.
SHAILENDRA WAGADRE All India General Secretary APAAX 09425003700 swagadre@rediffmail.com VISIT WWW.OBCGURU.COM FOR OBC RESERVATION RULES, CREAMY LAYER CRITERIA, CASTE LIST, CERTIFICATE & APPLICATION FORMAT etc. said
GREAT SHOLASHIPS BY CENTRAL GOVERNMENT.
82,000 SCHOLARSHIPS, Rs.1000/2000 MONTHLY:
(FOR NON CREAMY LAYER OBCs 80% MARKS IN 12th)
Dear Sir,
Wide publicity among the society is requested regarding:
“Central Sector Scheme of 82000 Scholarship for College and University Students (For candidates passed Class XII in 2008 from State or Central Board of secondary Education) Last Date Extended to 31st Jan. 2009”
Main Feathers-
(1) Total Scholarships- 82000
(2) Rs. 1000 per month for first 03 years
(3) Rs. 2000 per month for next 02 years
(4) Eligibility marks in 12th Board State or Central Board of secondary Education 2008
(i) For SC, ST & OBC category- 80 %
(ii) For General candidate- 90%.
(5) Eligibility criteria- Non-Creamy layer (Atleast not to have Rs. 4.50 lakhs annual income for last 03 years)
(6) Last Date of application- 31.01.2009
(7) Application form & information available on http://WWW.CBSE.NIC.IN OR http://WWW.OBCGURU.COM
(8) Whre to send applications- The Deputy Secretary, Admn & Vigilance, Scholarship Division, Central Board of Secondary Education 2, Community Centre, Preet Vihar, Delhi – 110 301
Special Note: The students appearing for 2009 12th examination must score more and more marks to get above scholarship.
SHAILENDRA WAGADRE, All India Principal General Secretary APAAX (Since-98) 09425003700 swagadre@rediffmail.com
VISIT http://WWW.OBCGURU.COM FOR OBC RESERVATION RULES, CREAMY LAYER CRITERIA DT 08.09.1993, GOVT CREAMY LAYER CLARIFICATIONS DT 14.10.2004, 4.50 LAKS ORDER DT 14.10.2008, CENTRAL CASTE LIST, CASTE CERTIFICATE & APPLICATION FORMAT AND COURT’S ORDERS etc.
Harish said
Agreed that SC/ST and BC need reservations …but even the creamy layered once. So that is probably the goal. What is happening in places like Uthamapuram is between the creamy layered and once who are not. It appears that there is division within OBC community.
Apart from this point is the point that Tamilnadu gives Hindi-speakers reservation apart from Telugu and Kannada speakers. The list is here: http://www.tn.gov.in/bcmbcmw/bclist.htm
Chintaka said
Fake caste certificates is no big deal. Even castes in the past were fluid. Many sudras became kshatrya, vaishya and brahmin and vice versa. Many of the tribes were included in the varna order. So why all this fuss. I know of many people from Scheduled Caste who have a net worth of 100 crores+ and their children avail of reservations. Caste based reservation itself is a farce. So a farce within a farce is no big deal. Even if there is a big racket in fake caste certificates it would not make any difference to social justice and all those high sounding words politicians talk about.
(Samatha)
Chintaka needs to understand that reservations is a welfare method. Every welfare method has loopholes. So what you do is plug the loophole. You don’t use it as an excuse to forget the state’s duty towards welfare of the needy. CRE Cell monitors and takes action on fake caste certificates. Kanshiram, Mayawati etc are all products of this welfare scheme. Just look at why so many other groups are also demanding reservations. Inspite of bureucratic reluctance and frauds, its still effective in uplifting.